* Whatever Anyone Wants to Talk About
Within limits, of course.
We’ve got a broad universe of discourse here, and anything that falls within those wide boundaries is invited.
I’ll get the ball rolling, perhaps, by bringing up Mel Gibson, who is –as I expect most of you know– currently in deeper disgrace as a bigot and even something of a monster because of some tapes we’re not hearing in which he rants against his recent girlfriend, mother of a child of his, for whom he left his wife of many years and with whom he is now split.
My thought is this: I believe this glimpse of profound ugliness –of hatred and of rage– that we get on that tape is MEANINGFULLY CONNECTED with that big cultural/political controversy that we had here in America, back six or seven years ago, about Gibson’s film THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST. I believe that if we hold the picture of this ugliness next to that controversy, we can see how those were right who felt there was something amiss –spiritually and morally– about what that movie communicated.
I could say more, but maybe that’s enough to get people to fill in the blanks.
(A While later): I find I want to fill in some of the blanks as well.
The tapes show us a man abusing a woman. They show us a man filled with hate and rage, and saying things that no human being should ever say to another. They show us a man who sees the world in the terms of the bigots, where blacks are called by the n-word, and the Jews are held responsible for all the world’s problems.
They show us, in other words, a deeply wounded, twisted man, who stands for rage and not for love, though he gained that place by pretending to be otherwise, by playing Braveheart and the upstanding colonial American hero in THE PATRIOT. They show us a man who is in the grip of darkness, in which The Other is the object of hatred, and the Other is huge because he makes everything into a war.
And then we remember back to what the issues were in the controversy over THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST. One controversy was over whether the film was anti-Semitic or not. The right wing denied it, the left saw the dark shadow of that ancient structure of European anti-Semitism, which has led to some of European civilization’s most ugly history, from Dreyfus to the Holocaust. Here it all is again in this powerful -therefore dangerous– film. No, said the defenders of Mel Gibson’s portrait of Christianity. He is being true to the Bible.
Yes, the Bible as has been interpreted by anti-Semites throughout European history. Christ-killers! That was what the anti-Semite took from the Bible from all that rich weave of all that the BIbile has to say about the Jews.
The evidence of WHO AND WHAT MEL GIBSON IS now shows pretty clearly what it was that he was going to use the death of Christ to convey. He knew who it was that we should leave, predisposed to HATE.
Another area of controversy is with what Mel Gibson did with the central event in all Christian theology, the crucification of Christ on the cross. This is the central moment where history will be transformed, from the old dispensation to the new dispensation.
The new clearly must contend with the old. But in what spirit. Mel Gibson divides the world into tormentors and innocent victims. Complete good against complete evil, in a world in which cruelty and not love predominates. The spirit that comes out of that is not a whole spirit. It is a source of evil and destruction. So the story of Christ’s end is depicted in a way that accentuates not the cleansing of the universe with the power of the Holy Spirit, as one might have picked up from that scene in Ben Hur, and that scene in The Robe, but rather –as Mel Gibson groks the essence of Christianity– the core of the event is the aspect of sadism and torture on one side of the relationship and innocent victim of torture on the other.
That controversy raised the question: WHAT IS THE CENTRAL MORAL TRUTH OF CHRISTIANITY? Gibson’s movie made clear that there was a powerful element of American Christianity that was ready to fully take in Gibson’s portrait of Christianity.
WHat does it say that the man who so moved them about Christianity, but whose own soul has proved to be so profoundly UNCHRISTIAN, could feel right to them, when he was coming from such a place of hate and rage and sadism as Mel Gibson? Can we imagine that the troubled and troubling spirit we now see in Mel Gibson on those tapes –and his previous DUI bigotry events– is not the one that was speaking through THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST?
July 11th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Unfortunately, at least in the media, the idea of “Christian” is increasingly aligned with “hatred,” hatred for some (as you say) “other” person or group whom the supposed Christians deem worthy of their disapproval. Twisted, indeed. Gibson isn’t an isolated case, merely a high profile one.
July 11th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Isn’t it interesting how difficult it is to change the world. Imagine what it looks like from Jesus’s point of view. Imagine that, whatever else was true of Jesus, he had the intent to move the world in a direction like that he spoke in the Sermon on the Mount, a message of peace, love, compassion and forgiveness. Imagine that you manage to launch a religious movement that becomes the one dominant religion of the dominant (European) civilization on the planet. And imaging that your very words up there on the Mount are taken as being the Word of God. Would you not IMAGINE that the world must therefore be a place in which humankind reliably behaves in accordance with the Golden Rule and the ethic of love thy neighbor as thyself, and love even your enemies?
But then you –you being Jesus– actually get to see how this Christianized world has been, these many millennia of Christendom. What a terribly unChristian history it mostly has been, from Crusades to the enslavement of peoples to the nightmare of total war and industrial Holocausts.
So, how hard is it to change the world? Even if you’re Jesus Christ and your words are said to be the Word of God, even so, The Forces of Power as depicted by THE PARABLE OF THE TRIBES, are so powerful that they overwhelm the forces of Goodness, because it has proved damnedly hard to get whole enough in our beings and our understanding to create a world together that makes in possible to embody the true spirit that Christ taught (Sermon on the Mount).
And even while embodying a Christ-like spirit –blessed are the humble in spirit, are the merciful, etc.–in some imaginationbale world– imagine these people were to thrive, because that was the way that everyone found was most rewarding and fulfilling.
That really is the question at the core of what we should be asking ourselves right now: do we believe in the possibility of a world in which humankind genuinely reflects a spirit of goodness in its total relationship with the Whole? Do we think that humankind is inherently incapable of collectively embodying the virtues of what’s right and what’s compassionate and what’s responsible and what’s healing? Or do we believe that there is possible a future in which humankind has solved its problems in how to organize a society well enough that a much higher level of human potential is developed and rewarded?
I used to have a more vivid sense of human possibility than I do now. I believe that what has happened is that earlier I imagined that the world would be steadily moving in the right direction– that from Carter onward there would be a turning of America toward respecting environmental requirements and government based on knowledge and creative and effective problem solving. But now here we are thirty years after Carter and the consciousness of America is far further back into the Dark Ages rather than the New Age that at least was addressing SOME important aspects of what was wrong with the dominant culture. We have stepped backwards, away from respect for real knowledge rather than just ideological dogma, away from a spirit of compromise and public service. The forward march of Virtue in a democratic form.
The left should pillory the right for the ways the right shows that it is the enemy of the Democratic spirit, as our Founders believed in it.
July 11th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
I should perhaps add that I have twice added onto the original piece here on this thread, so it’s possible you may have read the thread before some of what’s there now was there to be seen.
July 11th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
when i was young and going to church, the pastor(s) would sometimes say that the devil works harder on church members than the secular society (because they are already “in the bag,” as it were). i definitely do see the christian right behaving in an uncharitable, unloving manner–and calling it christianity. in their zealousness, they overlook that God gave every human the inherent right to choose–to do right or wrong. no amount of legislation on this earth will get me into heaven. i never saw the movie, but was aware of the hullaballoo it caused. i find that fascinating that you now see that corrrelation between the man, his purported malicious rants to ex gf and the movie. now, i would like to see the movie. more recently, there are allegations of extortion involved with these rants. that stuff should be coming out shortly. it doesn’t absolve him, though.
July 11th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Diversity, acceptance and philosophical balance are hard sells, and for most, fundamentally unsatisfying. Yet it’s in these troubling gray zones, bereft of bumper sticker rhetoric, with liberty and justice for all, that government and society show the greatest promise.
Just see what’s global: finance, corporations, the military. Imagine why. Could worldwide commercial interests be involved? Compare and contrast what’s not global: labor (God, not that, the hammer and sickle!), fair wages and working conditions ( Developed countries…especially the U.S. & Europe would suffer), environmental protection worldwide (too expensive), and so it goes.
Take a look at what’s been demonized in America since 1970: government (no one needs it, its the real power, its taxes make you poor, forget trade agreements and international conglomerates), trial lawyers and jury decisions (don’t let people decide and damn its just hot coffee), unions (undemocratic and corrupt), liberals (no eye on the bottom line, reluctant to fight), immigrants (unintelligible and brown), muslims (dangerous, want their religion and our oil).
It might be interesting and useful to engage conservatives about one of their long-feared bugaboos… the real approaching world government that’s finally, as they’ve feared for so long, undermining not only U.S. sovereignity but the independence of all nation states. Clue. Its not the U.N.
July 11th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Fundamentalism of any stripe leads to predudice, hatred and often violence.
In Israel, extremist settlers have killed fellow Jews for shielding and assisting Palestinians.
A few nations have banned extrmeist groups: I favor this. There is no right to kill or harm others to please your god or exercise your prejudices, whether you are Mel Gibson, Meir Kahane, or Osama Bin Laden.
July 11th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Are you saying, Robert Pleznac, that you regard the power of the system of multinational corporations constitutes something worth calling “a world government”?
July 11th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Pleznac points to an interesting development: the multinationals gain influence with corrupt politicians; buyouts occur until one giant company remains with enough influence to rule the entire world as say – the Dreiger Corporation – we then prostrate ourselfs to `The Entity.`
July 11th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
With regard to the suggestion above that we are moving towards a one world government, I would recommend Andrew Gavin Marshall’s series highlighting this issue, and how successfully they are achieving their intent to create a “global scientific dictatorship”.
“From the militarization of domestic society, it would appear as if we are moving into a world quite reminiscent of George Orwell’s 1984, in which the world is divided into a few major regional blocs that war against each other and terrorize their populations through acts of physical terror and total surveillance (“Big Brother”). This is but a phase and evolution into the final stage – the grand idea – or as Aldous Huxley referred to it, “The Ultimate Revolution”: the global scientific dictatorship. That will be the focus of the third and final part in this series.”
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19951
He also points out that this is being achieved by a tiny minority of our elites at the very top of wealth and power (some 6000 individuals), and largely with our manipulated support for their agenda. Social engineering has now reached a level where it is extremely difficult to project the truth into our society, and gives them the ability to exert control over the blinded general populations in such a way as to divert attention from the fact that we are being steadily moved towards this “Brave New World”. However, he suggests that our potential to overcome their objective of total control lies in our awakening to the reality of our situation, and exerting the power of ideas generated by those who can foresee the end of this perverted exertion of power, and who can guide us on an organized path away from this collision course with their grand dream of domination.
“Our world is governed not by a conspiracy, but by ideas: ideas of power, money, the state, military, empire, race, religion, sex, gender, politics and people. The only challenge to those ideas, are new ideas. There are roughly 6,000 members of the ‘global elite,’[94] there are over 6.8 billion people in the world. That sounds like a lot of potential for new ideas. The greatest resource for the future of humanity is not in the ‘control’ of humanity, which is doomed to ultimate failure, but for the release and encouragement of the human mind and spirit.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20028
July 11th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
So, Jim Oberg, do you believing this idea of these multinationals working successfully toward a “global scientific dictatorship.”? These are the same guys who engineered this financial collapse, and deep global recession? The same people who can’t plug a leak at the bottom of an oil rig. Who can’t hold onto their market share against Japanese auto makers. But they ARE able to coordinate a campaign to create a “global scientific dictatorship.”
July 11th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Andy, are you prepared to state that you believe there is NO SUCH dream
and motivating idea operative in the world today ( economic world control)?
July 11th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
I am in no position to “state” that there cannot be any such thing. How could I KNOW that there’s no hidden conspiracy of the kind and complexity that it seems some are envisioning.
What I can state is my own sense of how the world does and doesn’t work, and therefore my great skepticism about whether there’s any conspiracy going on THAT GOES VERY FAR TOWARD WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED.
What I imagine to be true is that these multinationals are exerting their power in myriad ways, big and small, planned and unaware, at the level of law and at the level of the forms of our thoughts in this civilization, and so on. And there are certainly large patterns of corruption that their excessive power forms, like laws that serve the monied interests at the costs of the wider good. Nothing new about that, in civilized societies. It has always been that way, to a greater or lesser extent.
Given such huge aggregations of power, how could there NOT be such patterns of corruption and injustice, just as there have been when there were aristocrats in castles dominating serfs in their huts.
And I would also imagine that there are ways in which different corporations work together, especially various industry groups, like tobacco and oil and the health insurance companies and the banks and hedge-funds. Every bit of progress toward building proper government walls around reckless and greedy corporate power has to be gained against major political power wielded by the corporations.
All this I would imagine to be true.
But that Google and Exxon and General Electric and Ford and Microsoft and Raytheon and Monsanto are all working together to create a “global scientific dictatorship,” that seems to me one of those paranoid fantasies that belongs up there with the right-wing fantasies of the black helicopters and with the anti-Semitic fantasies of “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” It’s not as dangerous a fantasy, as I am imagining it, as those, because unlike the black helicopter delusion and the Protocols myth, the reality is that the corporations are indeed the main thing that at our time in history we are challenged to curb in power if justice is to be achieved. It’s not like coming out of the Middle Ages, where the relationships of feudalism have to be overcome so that society might grow out of a situation (as existed back then) where 1 percent of the population controlled 99 percent of the resources. Now it’s not the power structure of feudalism, but rather of global capitalism, that needs to be curbed. But even so, at this point at least the present structure is not as unequal in the meeting of needs as was that world of 99-to-1.
Or, to sum up, yes we’ve got an important challenge here. But the picture should not be painted, out of paranoia, more dark and overwhelming than it is.
July 11th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Seems like kind of a dance there, Andy. If I were to have the time and resources to pursue this inquiry, I would not be concerned so much with the productive necessary corporations at work but rather I would look for interlocking boards, maybe, financial operatives and central banks, and the debt of nations and who in the main holds the debt and how it is/was incurredand how secured as well as the drive to control natural resources.
Being a believer in the Bible, I naturally look toward the time when there will be a brief period of years when, inspired by the Evil One, people will be required to renounce their faith to buy and sell, ie, to participate normally in the economic life of the then system. There will be such control that none can resist. Of course, this has existed from time to time more or less and here and there but NOT YET world wide.
So . . it is more than just interesting to observe trends in that direction
both here and worldwide . . such as there are.
Actually fundamental Biblical Christianity has faded rapidly in America inrecent decades just from social pressures alone as en mass the plunge into the hedonistic era of prosperity has taken over.
Today’s conservative fundamentalist is about preserving certain American ‘christian’ values but without devotion to true Biblical Christianity; so the obvious visible contradictions.
We probably are well on the way to where it is we are going.
July 11th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
That is not how I see the trend lines, David R., and I believe I have some empirical basis for my judgment: I believe that “fundamentalist Biblical Christianity” has greatly increased in social and political power in the United States from, say, the post-War generation (1945-1975) up to the past thirty years. There has been a global tendency toward more fundamentalist religion, and nowhere in Christendom moreso than in the United States, while also in the Islamic world, where Islamist movements and theocratic political tendencies have been on the rise.
Actually, as I interpret the patterns at work, your sense, David R., of belonging to an embattled and endangered minority is a part of the problem, part of the sense of grievance that enables people who are actually acting on offense to feel that they are operating in self-defense. I think for example of that bogus “war on Christmas” meme that people like Bill O’Reilly tried with some success to inject into the political culture. I encountered the same pattern in that I WILL BEAR WITNESS, where the defenders of the “true Aryan culture” of Germany imagined that they were seeking peace and having conflict thrust upon them because their pure values were under direct and continual assault from Bolshevist-Jewish forces, in a cabal against them.
It has been people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and the rest of their ilk that have been most responsible for religious conflict in America in our time. They are not on defense, even if they believe themselves to be.
FOr example, I read a piece just this evening about the powerful forces at work trying to make the U.S. military into an instrument of aggressively evangelical Christianity. Hard to imagine that happening back in the days of President Eisenhower.
July 11th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Today’s conservative fundamentalist is about preserving certain American ‘christian’ values but without devotion to true Biblical Christianity; so the obvious visible contradictions.
July 11th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
I’m not sure if this is true, David R., but I have a sense that the nub of the difference between us here might be something like this: you believe that this “false” (not “true”) Christianity is some recent fall from Grace from a tradition that’s been pretty pure until this recent gang of pseudo-Christians on the right has come to the fore; I believe that this kind of false Christianity –very contrary to the Sermon on the Mount– is one form of Christianity that’s been a bane on Western civilization at various times throughout the history of Christendom. To you it’s apparently a new form of lapse; to me its the return of an ancient pathological pattern, which gave us the Crusades, the Inquisition, the religious wars, the burning of witches, the missionaries imposing their ways on native peoples, and so on.
I’m not saying that Christianity hasn’t had its Christian side historically as well, tending the sick, expressing the spirit of love, etc. But in this fallen world, filled with broken people like Mel Gibson, what has upset you that you see in some of the Christians in the world around you has been far from rare through the centuries.
July 11th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
As to whether there is some self-conscious agenda managed by some central cabal of elites to create this global scientific dictatorship Marshall describes, I am uncertain. However, there seems to be a clear trend in that direction, with both power and wealth being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer. As Warren Buffet warned recently, “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html?_r=1
Ronald Wright, in A Short History of Progress (his investigation into why civilizations collapse), suggests that those at the top, when societies approach their limits, work to ensure that they prosper long after the general populations. “The concentration of power at the top of large-scale societies gives the elite a vested interest in the status quo; they continue to prosper in darkening times long after the environment and general populace begin to suffer.”
I do believe that we are experiencing the negative impact of our elites’ cumulative efforts to secure their prosperity for themselves, and to establish the systems of control needed to keep it for as long as they can as we humans confront our limits on planet earth. They know that our cheap energy sources, as well as other key resources, will soon run out if we continue as in the past, and that we cannot sustain an ever increasing population of ‘breeders and feeders’ (those they consider inferior to their class). Much of what we see going on now with our phony “War on Terror” seems more aimed at terrifying our own people to make us easier to control. By manufacturing an evil enemy through their false flag attacks around the world, they have secured our assent to employ our military might to go after the control of essential resources we don’t yet control. They also are preparing for the time when the population masses become desperate, and will need to be (brutally?) controlled as they scramble to survive.
I suggest you read Marshall’s three part series linked above for further expansion on this idea. I found it very helpful in better understanding what we face from those on top of the heap. We cannot respond effectively in our own interests if we do not better understand those who do not have our interests as a priority.
July 12th, 2010 at 7:25 am
I certainly agree with that quote from Buffet, and I agree also with you, Jim Oberg, about the increasing concentration of wealth and power. That has been a theme, albeit not my major one, on NSB for some while.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:20 am
I agree – the elites are surrying to accumulate as much as they can, while they can, before their profit-making becomes exhausted – the writing is usually seen on the wall, from their furtive activities, just before an apocolyptic collapse. If there is a semblance of support for the down-and-out beleagured, it must come from a prophetic leader.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Elites amassing wealth.
From what I can tell, elites in the past were able to amass wealth and project it forward in time over many, many future generations.
Inefficiency is implied in a system in which that can happen, and I think, in the modern situation, that inefficiency has been squeezed out. Modern elites deceive themselves if they think they can ape the wealth-accumulation patterns of the past, in the hope of “passing it on” to future generations, or whatever.
Doesn’t mean though that those deluded elites’ attempts to ape the practices of the past don’t impede our attempt to create a sane society.
July 12th, 2010 at 11:03 am
Why just the one prophetic leader, James? Lebron James, maybe ? – just joking
. I was thinking more in terms of a prophetic MOVEMENT, one that’s relatively small in numbers but projects persuasive and forceful action.
July 12th, 2010 at 11:18 am
The point being that if one day humankind can indeed be collectively reached, the vanguard of this smaller movement should be in tune with the prophetic. Thus, there must be a joining of many prophetic leaders.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Humans at that level won`t cooperate with the divergent visionaries. Nations solve that problem, they think, by crafting a policy. You deal with others, by knowing their policy and working within that reality. You will not get fully, what you would like, but compromise is a necessity. With rising deficits and starving social programs, crumbling infrastructure, unsustainable services costs; crushing war-making demands; the rise of a dictatorial leader, with absolute authority to rein in the dim-witted, is necessary.
July 12th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
It’s not just ‘at that level’ humans fail to cooperate with divergent visions. Humans at that level have rarely measured up and cooperated gracefully, James. What else is new?
July 12th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Great thread!
One contribution economics can probably make is the advice to “follow the money.” By this would be meant that it is not necessary to get into the heads of the more wealthy and thus powerful and try to figure out whether they are thinking, writing, meeting or conversing about a conspiracy. It is ony necessary to observe their behaviors.
These behaviors, as many here have eloquently stated, are pretty consistent as regards outcomes, namely the probably criminal squeezing of the middle class, the upward flow of wealth through the manipulation of public policy (and on this the coming Social Security swindle will be a centerpiece), the use of persuasive apparati to delude their victims into campaigning for and supporting their own demise, and the diminishment of civil freedoms (note how the federal government is beginning to move toward additional punitive measures against those whose houses are severely under water and who choose to default as the most logical response).
I have become aware of the increased use of public disparagement and humilation against those who would question whether “sommething is up” different than the going story, whether it be 9-11, the WMD’s in Iraq, the source of the financial meltdown, and amazingly, even the influence of corporate money in Congressional votes (“campaign contributions have no effect on my votes in Congress…”). Such talking-down is simply one of the tools used in the consolidatory plan. The idea that it could be otherwise brings a smile.
July 12th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I think we, as progressives, want to assume that religion *should* be about the underlying kindness and love and peacefulness, but that’s hardly ever what it’s used for, as has been discussed above. Preserving “American ‘christian’ values” is nothing more than wishing that those different from themselves would stay in the closet and not sully their 1950′s worldview.
I work in a field where most of my clients *should*, in their own financial interests, vote Democrat. They are workers who have been injured on the job. It’s no secret that Republicans favor the interests of business over the interests of the workers. Having said that, many of my clients are “right”. I believe it is because of fear… fear of their world changing. Fear that gays will be able to get married if they vote Democrat (as if anyone is ever going to make John Q. Factoryworker marry another man); fear of a black president.
Even though for the most part, these are decent, hardworking people, they fear a world where people are different from themselves. They fear what they don’t understand, and fundamental religion makes sure that those beliefs are deep and unshakeable. When they see a “celebrity” like Mel Gibson sharing those ugly beliefs, it reinforces these views.
As for whether we, as a civilization, can move toward a broader way of thinking that encompasses more peace and love, I’m skeptical. I think it’s slowly changing, but I also think it’s one step forward, two steps back.
July 12th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
There is nothing new and `the secrets` are not for us to know, – if we did know – as Andy quibs “you`ll get hurt.” So lets turn to `The Good Shepherd` . A spy film with Matt Damon . Robert De Niro . Angelina Jolie. I never trusted Dulles and thank goodness he never knew me or ever laid eyes on the likes of me. Truth is stranger than fiction, although the tale is loosely based. I think, basically, this is how it is going and everyones fate is in the hands of a very few. I`m staying in my backyard!
July 12th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
I’ve been away from NSB dealing with a number of family crises that have arisen at the same time – following the principle that, “when it rains it pours.” They have demanded my undivided attention….yet when I happened to see this thread, my reluctant (and I hope temporary) renunciation just broke down.
I believe there are three primary news stories (well, 2 1/2 really) that we won’t see on the evening news, but which continue to have enormous implications for the challenges our world is facing – and, how we might *begin* to turn things around.
The first has to do with the information already available concerning 9/11.
Michael Ruppert’s book, Crossing The Rubicon, lays out the details with great clarity. Each of the 1,000 footnotes, he has stated, meets not merely journalistic standards of reporting, but also, to be cited, needed to be admissible in a court of law.
Much of the relevant info can also be found on his old site: FromtheWilderness.com.
The most recent data of which I’m aware can be found on 911truth.org, and particularly in the many essays there by David Ray Griffin.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
From the way you begin your comment, Anonymous, I expect that your anonymity was unintentional.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
The second story has to do with the apparent facts regarding governments’ current and historical involvement with extraterrestrial races. As Fox Mulder used to say, “The truth is out there.” In all senses of that phrase.
Among the virtually infinite points of interest, I’ll mention what is being called, “The New Manhattan Project.” The infusion of data (much of which is disinformation or quackery) available since the appearance of the Internet paints a very complex picture, and has given rise to a new discipline called “Exopolitics.”
Relevant websites (which include archived whistleblower testimony that one can evaluate for oneself) include:
Disclosureproject.org
Exopolitics.com
Paradigm Research Group
and
Exopolitics.org
Steven Greer’s books provide a tremendous amount of material worth contemplating:
Hidden Truth: Forbidden Knowledge
Disclosure : Military and Government Witnesses Reveal the Greatest Secrets in Modern History
Contact: Countdown to Transformation
Extraterrestrial Contact: The Evidence and Implications
***
Alfred Lambremont Webre’s book, titled Exopolitics: Politics, Government, and Law in the Universe is interesting indeed, as is:
Exposing U.S. Government Policies On Extraterrestrial Life: The Challenge Of Exopolitics by Michael E. Salla. This book includes an attempt to at least outline the basics of the “Black” and “Deep Black” budgets.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
The last, but not at all least, topic concerns the existence and work of God-Realized (or Self-Realized who are currently active in our world.
Because their view of the world is so disparate from the prevailing paradigms (worldviews) of most individuals and society, even when the media gets wind of one of these people and feels compelled to report on a talk or program they are giving, etc. – the subject matter is usually trivialized…and sanitized at least to some extent
Amma is one such being and is currently touring the U.S. and Canada. Given that she is being compared to Mother Teresa, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King Jr., and the fact that so many people show up to meet her and receive a blessing, television and newspaper articles do appear. Fortunately, she is able to convey her message in a simple and direct fashion, so that “whoever hath ears, let them hear.”
Details can be found at Amma.org
July 12th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Andy,
Quite true. Trusting you are well.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Ah yes, I almost forgot. For anyone interested in what NASA has been up to (I’d guess it’s not what you assumed!) check out the New York Times Best Seller –
Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA – by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara.
****
The more I study, the more it seems likely that not only are a number of “conspiracy theories” accurate (that is, referring to actual conspiracies, as legally defined), but that what is going on behind the scenes is weirder and more pervasive than almost anyone realizes. Let’s just say that those involved don’t have our best interests in mind.
If true, this means that all of us are way more naive than we think we are.
And if this is so, we remain naive at our own risk.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:10 am
Andy wrote:
“What I can state is my own sense of how the world does and doesn’t work, and therefore my great skepticism about whether there’s any conspiracy going on THAT GOES VERY FAR TOWARD WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED.”
I’m all for keeping a discerning, even skeptical perspective on the glut of facts, factoids, theories, disinformation, and plain gobbledygook that we encounter on a daily basis. This includes the assumptions upon which all of us folks – rich and poor alike – build our belief systems and from there, our lives.
That said, in regards to various core “conspiracy theories,” the information is now in the public domain (and remember – the government’s narrative about 9/11 is exactly that – a conspiracy theory).
Whether accurate or not, we now have the absolute freedom to explore the careful research that (has been and) continues to be done. We can see for ourselves what makes sense and doesn’t.
The key, however, is our willingness to make real effort in this direction, dedicating the same kind of time, thought, and energy we would give to any topic that interests us.
We are completely free to walk down the path key researchers are taking, and if appropriate – critique and assail their logic and/or data, etc.
The reason the concept of “None So Blind” is so valuable is that it is a universal phenomenon.from which none of us are exempt.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:32 am
I would add, Andy, that in my current understanding, things are much worse, more convoluted, and outrageous than you believe. (And this can be tough stuff to swallow). However, I have no need to convince you or anyone else.
I would challenge anyone to review Mike Ruppert’s or David Ray Griffin’s material in a comprehensive way – and then refute it.
The same applies to the archival material on Disclosureproject.org and material in Greer’s books.
I predict that it will soon enough be the case that those of us (yes, you too, Andy
) who are unwilling to “see for ourselves”
- in order to be qualified to participate in a genuine debate about this shadowy, and possibly immensely consequential stuff –
will begin to look like the three monkeys: “See no evil,” etc. and etc.”
If my sense about things is even partially on target we are currently being offered the opportunity to transform our worldviews in a radical way… on our own initiative…or be dragged there, kicking and screaming all the way.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:36 am
The online material on HAARP and “Disaster Capitalism,” I believe, also have significant relevance to this discussion.
July 13th, 2010 at 7:48 am
We will be dragged along anyway, cause we, as individuals have no real power or influence. Why would any individual or group, make these plots, rather than look for a job.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
One more quote to offer to this discussion, in light of Hanu Man Ji’s comment that we are more naive than we think we are:
“If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched.”
–Former U.S. President George H.W. Bush, cited in the June, 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter
Perhaps we all should engage in the kind of study he has engaged in, and begin to recognize that our interests are certainly not the interests of those at the top. Discerning what they have in store for us appears might stimulate us to find our courage to resist in this class warfare they are winning.
July 13th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Good to hear you, James. It’s been awhile!
I hope we will pick up our discussion on “Freedom Vs. Destiny” at some point in the future.
For now the answer to your question is Easy: Addiction to Money and Power.
And at a deeper level still, attachment to thought-emotion-forms of entitlement, grandiosity, and narcissistic rage.
July 13th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
One more thing:
While I’d guess that any truly evolved society will, by definition, embrace a worldview which acknowledges (and lives) the radical interdependence of all phenomena, there is no reason to assume that our species will achieve this perspective – this round.
The one thing we can do is envision and work toward this goal. However…
We may need to destroy ourselves (or radically regress) if we don’t wise up and grow up quickly enough to “see the wizard behind the screen” before it is too late…and move beyond our child/adolescent mentality into adulthood.
I would guess that many evolved species out there in the galaxy have had to endure their societies’ destruction and recreation a number of times – before they discovered the way to maintain a wise and sustainable culture.
July 13th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Hanu, don’t you suppose most of the readers of NSB, not to mention the more usual contributors, are more than open to your charges of naitivity?
July 13th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
It seems you think some here aren’t willing to sufficiently examine the claims you make?
July 13th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
You have returned … it`s easier to breath now! Think `Skull and Bones` and the like; it might be all about class and the descendants of Kings. I`ll never be invited to the Bilderburg meetings.
July 13th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Yes its true, the majority are emotional adolescents; an incurable condition and esteem will cetainly lead to protection of same and the confrontation of nations or cultures. But those fistfights at the assemblies, they are are amusing: for now!
July 13th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Yes, our destiny – we see it every day – is with the sun – as you know from the fate of Custer.
July 14th, 2010 at 4:04 am
#
# Steve Says:
July 13th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Hanu, don’t you suppose most of the readers of NSB, not to mention the more usual contributors, are more than open to your charges of naitivity?
# Steve Says:
July 13th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
It seems you think some here aren’t willing to sufficiently examine the claims you make?
***
As far as the nativity scene goes – I don’t recall mentioning it…and best I can recall – wasn’t there to greet the baby Mahatma.
As far as folks willing to examine the “claims” – also don’t know. For me, it would be wonderful to have a vigorous discussion with folks who have have researched these topics for themselves.
As I see it, the matter of “cabals and conspiracies” is critically important to understanding the “deep politics” that seem to be underlying and determining much more in the world than any of us would like to believe.
The Nazi (yes, I said that) influence at NASA, JPL, and the CIA (think – “project paperclip”) should be enough to scare the be-jesus out of anyone!
Hoagland has done some key work in this area, but he is by no means alone.
July 14th, 2010 at 4:11 am
James,
I can only pranam to you – and the scholar within you.
…a facet it seems, that you try to disavow and hide!
To no avail.
July 14th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Yes and no … experience is crucial to cognitive ability. I have not experienced the environment of Institutionaly produced intellects; have not developed the social skills to move within that crowd; cannot understand their emotional detatchment to torture and killing; and will never understand the system that supports and condons their actions. I am justified, in not crossing the line!
July 14th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
James:
In order to better understand the degree to which pathology infects the thinking and actions of those at the top of our system, I would suggest reading a bit on “the Science of Evil”, as summarized here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm
When sociopaths rise to the top, no society is immune to their agenda unless we recognize their presence, and rise up in repudiation of their evil rule.
July 14th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Jim,
I took a look at the site as well. Thanks for the reference.
I like Lobaczewski’s term: “the pathocracy,” where sociopaths run the show.
“The actions of [pathocracy] affect an entire society, starting with the leaders and infiltrating every town, business, and institution. The pathological social structure gradually covers the entire country creating a “new class” within that nation.
“This privileged class [of pathocrats] feels permanently threatened by the “others”, i.e. by the majority of normal people. Neither do the pathocrats entertain any illusions about their personal fate should there be a return to the system of normal man. [Andrew M. Lobaczewski Political Ponerology: A science on the nature of evil adjusted for political purposes]“
July 14th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
James,
I never said nothin’ about you and schoolin’.
July 14th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Since the Cro Magnons and the Neanderthals, violence has determined who becomes the dominant group. The psychopaths are there – always were – to inflict violence on the underclasses and plunder and desecrate the planet to which we are tasked to protect. But those in power have the means to exercise their custodial duties: they do not. Not until everyone is eating grass, will the underclass reclaim their home and shake off the yoke of the oppressors. Americas decline is following the path of Yugoslavia and violence as seen there, will be replicated here, as families struggle to protect their loved ones. It is almost impossible for the individual to confront the out-of-control institutions shielding these corporate masters of the universe.
July 14th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Lobaczewski`s historical parsing on the nature of the condition and his suffering under the communists is enlightening. But you might find it informative to move on to the current research on neural plasticity and the role white matter plays in connecting the many isolated areas of neuronal functioning and how the corpus callosum brings all of the analysis together, enabling us to think. The maturation of the process takes place in our mid-twenties; before that, we find it difficult to make adult decisions. Many factors prevent the necessary myelin sheathing of the axons – smoking – leaving the individual crippled for life. Lobaczewski has not seen this nor have researchers, up to now, examined the white matter. The implications are impressive, as most of us never seem to grow up, for some reason
The research article is in the March 2008 Scientific American, page 54.
http://neuroscience.nih.gov/lab.asp?org_id=274
July 14th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Bless you, James, for your growing clarity. I agree in very large part with what you are saying.
You may be interested in checking out two books on Amazon:
Confronting Collapse: The Crisis of Energy and Money in a Post Peak Oil World, which is Mike Ruppert’s latest offering.
*****
['All I can say is, "Yikes!" This is a book everyone should read.Mike Ruppert is my friend. And, sometimes I remind him, in a way that only a friend can, that my perspective is colored by my own distinct experiences as an informed woman of color in the United States. And frankly, that means that some of what is between these covers makes me cringe; but it is exactly this substance, actively suppressed in proposed national and international gatherings, that we human beings must debate and resolve, or else, we will find Dr. King's admonition, once again, to be true: "We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."
'We know Mike Ruppert because he became a whistleblower and told us some inconvenient truths. About crack cocaine, 9/11/01, and now this-how to step back from the brink of human disaster.
'It is clear that Mike and I are headed toward the same destination, despite our differences. This book lands Mike exactly where I am-outside of the box of political orthodoxy, but well within the space of policy advocacy that is representative of critical thinking, rational analysis, and authentic leadership.
'Mike Ruppert dares to go where our elected leaders seem afraid to take us. In the end, however, if we are to salvage our own human dignity, either our "leadership" must catch up with us or we must become and nurture a new generation of leaders.']
–Cynthia McKinney, 6-term Member, U.S. House of Representatives, Green Party Presidential Candidate, 2008
July 14th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
And also, more light summer reading for the beach…
Sacred Demise: Walking the Spiritual Path of Industrial Civilization’s Collapse
by Carolyn Baker
****
["The collapse of industrial civilization is rapidly unfolding and offers us an opportunity far beyond mere survival, even as it renders absurd any attempts to "fix" or prevent the end of the world as we have known it.
"Sacred Demise is about the transformation of human consciousness and the emergence of a new paradigm as a result discovering our purpose in the collapse process, thereby coming home to our ultimate place in the universe. Our willingness to consciously embark on the journey with openness and uncertainty may be advantageous for engendering a quantum evolutionary leap for our species and for the earth community.
"Carolyn Baker is tireless in her quest to understand and speak about the collapse of civilization. Her message is simple: our journey through collapse will be as much a spiritual one as a physical one, a journey back from profound disconnection to the sacred. And so our emotional, psychological and spiritual preparations will be as important as the gardens we plant, the healing skills we acquire, and the actions we take in defense of the community of life.
" A book of tools and exercises to help with that preparation, then, is a welcome and much-needed addition to the literature of collapse."]
–Tim Bennett and Sally Erickson, Writer and Producer of the documentary “What A Way To Go: Life At the End of Empire”
***
["Carolyn speaks with a confidence that never flinches from entering into the hardest truths of our times, or from the most difficult truths about the culture we are immersed in, so that we might emerge from the chrysalis of global crisis with open hearts and a renewed way of living on Earth together."]
–Juan Santos, Fourth World Blogspot
July 14th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
I have much respect for Carolyn Baker a person of experience smacking of wisdom: I wonder how she does it: influence of Gerald Ford, I guess. You are, as usual, enthusiastic, Man Ji! The US will, by her unique maritime position, of the Atlantic and the Pacific on either side, remain the leader of the world, for some time to come.
July 15th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
While I think that an understanding of the concept of a pathocracy is important when considering how those at the top can infect a society with ‘evil’, I believe its importance has to do with how we ‘normal’ people operate in relationship to our conscience. A pathocracy is supremely dangerous to us all, because those without conscience understand well how to manipulate the rest of us to support their agenda, and how to undermine the healthy dynamic that should function in our lives to permit our responsible participation in society, a society we want to be oriented towards peace and justice.
As I have come to understand it through my own life and from my study of theology, our innate conscience is the basis of our common belief in a God. Most people, when asked, will say that they believe in God, although they may have different interpretations of what that means. But at the core, it has to do with our sense that we are being judged for our actions towards others (which our conscience tells us is true). From there we have projected the existence of an ultimate judge, who knows our most personal thoughts and tiniest action, and will hold us to account at our end. Out of this has come our great religions, which originally were created to foster this sense of obligation to our fellow beings in communities of believers who act to help each other realize our ethical and moral responsibility to all about us.
However, those without conscience (those 4% of sociopaths in our midst) have no tie to the reality of God (conscience) in their lives. They know they are freed of all moral and ethical boundaries, and can use their innate gifts in whatever way best fosters their advantage over others in their striving to fulfill whatever goals they have. If they happen to be captured by dark passions, they can prey on the trust of others to manipulate them into situations where they gain total control, either emotionally or physically, and do to them whatever they wish. Nothing they do to others has any hold on them personally; no guilt ever accrues to them. When we discover such monsters in our society, we ensure that they are rendered impotent to do further damage to others.
However, for those sociopaths with great intelligence, cunning, and grand ambitions of wealth and power, they have an immense advantage as they climb the hierarchies of our societal institutions. Unencumbered by any normal moral inhibitions, they can easily undermine those who are restricted by their consciences. Anything to advance their position goes, and as long as they produce in relationship to the goals of the institution, they rise quickly over those they can undermine. Because they recognize that most are burdened by conscience, they can effectively feign the appearances themselves of also possessing that flaw, by attending church, professing a belief in God, and participating in charitable work, and the such. Yet it is all part of their skill in gaining advantage over others, and never revealing to normal people what they in reality are at their core. Only when they encounter and recognize others like themselves are they able to celebrate their unique and blessed position in the world of men. And then they can begin to employ this greater opportunity they have, working in concert with other sociopaths, to achieve wealth and power beyond their own individual capacity to gain it on their own.
Once at the pinnacle of government, church or corporate hierarchy, these ‘special’ people who have appropriated our trust can implement the most pernicious of their gifts, the ability to disable the limiting role of conscience in others. This they do by taking the concept of a personal guiding God many of us have, and elevating it to the level of a common God. Whether by perverting our religious institutions, as we see now, or by making God into the protector of our national existence, they remove God from being the personal judge of our individual actions to becoming our personal protector and defender of all of our actions. In this way, they take away much of our ability to critically examine our overall actions towards others not under the protection of ‘our’ God, and give ‘our people’ a free hand to do whatever they tell us to do. Torture, preemptive wars, mass starvations, abuse of immigrants, you name it, it all is OK because we do it under the eyes of God, and with his blessing of his special people. Now, as they are aggressively moving with others around the world to implement their global scientific dictatorship, we as Americans march with them blindly trusting that God marches in our midst and always on our side, and that nothing we do can ever be really wrong, because we are the ones God has chosen to bless. Of course, in their grand delusion of total domination and unchallenged control, they neglect to address the overarching pressing issues that we all should be facing that will take us all over the cliff of resource and environmental collapse, and may destroy us all.
To free ourselves from this march to our Hell on earth, we somehow have to separate ourselves from this demonic tie to a false God created to martial us behind the sociopaths’ agenda, and look at the truth of what we are in fact doing in the world and to those about us. We must come to recognize those sociopathic elements at the top for what they are, and for what they are leading us towards, both personally and commonly. We must each then come to accept responsibility for the evil we have allowed to take over the life of our society, and find a way to together repent for our violation of so many others while under the thrall of their evil control. We must look at the world as it really now is, in the demonic form created to benefit our sociopathic leadership, condemn their (and our) actions, and organize to repudiate those who have taken us down this road to perdition.
God, as revealed to us by our consciences, and in the teachings of Jesus, is a personal God, not a God of some religion or of any nation. It is that burning presence of a conscience within each of us that can show us the way now, that can lead us to the promised life together of the golden rule, of doing unto others as we would have them do unto us. His message to us was that we need to cultivate that posture in our lives, to recognize the many ways we are tempted to abandon its guidance, and to understand that we are forgiven our transgressions if we dare to face them, and rededicate ourselves to a life lived by its guidance. His ‘good news’ was that the kingdom of God is all about us, and that each one of us is free to participate in its realization every day in the relationships we have with those about us. Recovering our right personal relationship to our guiding, judging, conscience is our first step towards the better future that is possible for humanity, I believe.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:34 am
Lobaczewski Made the comment that Beria was a psychopath, as one could see by the structure of his forehead. But upon observing his photo, there was no indication of an abnormality. Stalin led the country into an era of industrialization and unprecedented growth, while practicing his unconscionable paranoid killing spree. Hitler would have siezed the Soviet Union, had Stalin not been in a dictatorial position: the Russian people were fearful and looked up to `The Boss`: many revere him even now. The destiny of the human tribes is in the hands of those who do not cringe at the sight of blood. Leaders without a conscience have the advantage of responding instantly to a timely response. The deaths of billions is but a statisic, they think.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Jim Oberg Says:
July 15th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
“While I think that an understanding of the concept of a pathocracy is important when considering how those at the top can infect a society with ‘evil’, I believe its importance has to do with how we ‘normal’ people operate in relationship to our conscience.”
Jim,
I found your post to be breathtakingly brilliant, powerful, and verging on prophetic. Thank you. I got a tremendous amount of the way you synthesized and linked a number of key ideas.
July 19th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Hanu Man Ji: Thank you for your kind comment.
You might be interested in the comment of a friend I shared these thoughts with. I think he has recognized the reason why we have been unable to embrace the reasonable (for our species) philosophy put forth by Jesus.
“How does one dump a false god? My guess that it is more dangerous than trying to dump a sociopathic boyfriend. It can be done, but there will be terrible initial consequences.”
The authorities of the church of that time knew what to do with Jesus himself as he began to threaten their manipulative reign. It took them a bit longer to crucify his message, but that was done rather soon, too.
Permitting the true gospel message much public exposure is a dangerous thing for those in power. They will do anything to ensure that we are kept under the spell of their false gods.
It is too bad that the actual teachings and parables of Jesus are no longer emphasized to clarify what he actually meant by the kingdom of God, and what he fundamentally intended in his message, the freeing of each of us from control by society’s manipulators, chief among them the religious leaders of his time. In my own effort to embrace his true message, I have found the theological writings of Dietrich Bonhoeffer to offer the best understanding of what Jesus hoped and intended for us. While Bonhoeffer emphasized the importance of being part of a Christian community as a way to provide a spiritual check on our actions, he was adamantly opposed to our dependence on ‘religion’ as the mediator of our spirit and community life. He imagined instead that Jesus called for the emergence of a ‘religionless Christianity’ within society, based on the message of the gospels, and focusing on our individual relationship to the Father through our neighbor, as illuminated in Jesus’s hints regarding his true nature. Naturally, such a message designed to set people free of their dependence and domination by authorities of church and state could not be tolerated by those in authority, and had to be co-opted and replaces with the authoritarian, vengeful, martial god of our current major religions and nations.
Of course, we all have been quite relieved to be let off the hook with regard to the personal challenge of the true message of the gospels, and set free from the chiding presence of our consciences. So we readily have accepted the comfortable relationship offered by this new and better common god, who has promised to bless and protect us all and those like us. Under his guidance, we (Catholics, Methodists, Americans, etc) can do no real wrong. This necessary substitution took place initially very early in the life of Christianity, and soon we had ‘the holy catholic church’, and the spread of ‘religion’ as what was needed to ensure that the striving for personal freedom and individual responsibility never became established too widely in our societies. Instead of embracing concepts such as “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven”, we prefer the gracious god who rewards ‘his people’ for their competitive efforts and treats the rich as the most fully blessed among us. You can go down the list of the differences between what Jesus preached and what we accept as the church’s or state’s easier message, and can see how easily we were bought off from taking on the task of building his kingdom on earth, a kingdom where freedom, justice and peace reign supreme, and where love of neighbor is manifest in all our actions. We are far from an understanding of the ideal posture of “do unto others…” as Jesus called for us to do, and the idea of turning the other cheek is pure insanity to our time.
While there are still those who understand the true challenge of the Gospel message of personal freedom and its attendant responsibilities, and even some Christian communities who are faithful to his message of service to others, they are carefully excluded from polite mainstream consideration, and usually dismissed with the pejorative tag of ‘sect’. Sort of like how any who question the objectives or actions of our nation, as on 9/11, are identified as ‘conspiracy theorists’. We certainly cannot give any credibility to those who do not faithfully follow our true god (or our godly nation), the one who has blessed our great nation, has rewarded us with our position of privilege and prosperity, and is leading us in our wars to purge the earth of evil and bring our glorious democracy and market-economy heaven to all.
What will it take to save us from ourselves? Maybe it will take an Old Testament cleansing, as took place with Sodom, when our energy crisis and environmental devastation catch up to us. If any remain after the collapse of our rotting civilization, perhaps some might recover a New Testament from the ashes, and begin to orient our new way in relating to one another around the great wisdom to be found there. Of course, the sociopathic authoritarian types will probably again awaken, and do all they can to reclaim their control over us, and we will more likely enter the new cycle to the next crisis.
Maybe Jesus was sent to the wrong planet! (?)
July 19th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
To further clarify my views, Hanu Man Ji;
While I am not one who subscribes to the notion of the existence of an actual physical god, I do consider myself to be a religionless Christian, as the message contained in the gospels seems our best hope for an enlightened existence in harmony with our neighbors and our planet. Realizing our full potential as individuals in a cooperative loving relationship with all about us seems to be a challenge worthy of striving for in our personal lives, and offers the best hope for our life in community with others. While it appears to be an ideal image, and many practical issues require being dealt with in the messiness of real life on our planet, if such a philosophy directed our common striving (if we really were a nation of such Christians), I think our society could more closely match the kingdom Jesus described, where peace, justice and love of neighbor reigned supreme.
My wife and I did have the great privilege of being part of such a community of several thousand families for over 20 years who embodied this posture in all we did together, and in our service to others around the world. My life is much richer for knowing the potential of such a stance in relationship to Jesus’s call. Whether it is possible for humans in general to embrace such a selfless philosophy in our search for a sustainable and fulfilling existence together, I am unsure. Until we value the richness of our souls more than the richness of our physical situation, it will not gain strength as a guiding philosophy. Too bad, I fear, for our poor gullible species.
July 20th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Thanks, Jim. I very much appreciate your clarity, conviction, and thoughtfull approach.
Re: Jesus, I found Stephen Mitchell’s small book, The Gospel According to Jesus: A New Translation and Guide to His Essential Teachings for Believers and Unbelievers – to be quite illuminating.
You have articulated so many interesting points and nuances.
One way to approach the material in your post above –
(July 19th, 2010 at 5:44 pm. “To further clarify my views…”)
- can be found in Alan Comb’s brilliant book, The Radiance of Being, in which Combs offers a comprehensive approach dealing with the evolution of human consciousness over time.
July 20th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Hanu Man Ji, thank you for the referrals above. I will look these up to add to my own collection of material that can support my own spiritual quest. Another good book I have encountered is “God Without Religion”, by Sankara Saranam of the Pranayama Institute. I had many good personal exchanges with the author after having discovered this book on their website, and find it useful in my own attempts to embody a religionless Christianity.
I also have much appreciated your thoughtful participation on this site, and always read with interest anything you post. May the eventual convergence of minds bring us together in the passage we all must make during these coming years of crisis for our species. Hopefully there will be a new opening offered to us somewhere ahead where we can better embody the possibilities such visionaries had in mind when they shared their thoughts with us (including Jesus). Whatever unfolds, we can only now prepare ourselves to be ready to play whatever part we can as bearers of the good news of our true freedom.
July 20th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
So true, Jim…(all of what you wrote), and I am thankful for your words as well.
One other reference comes to mind at the moment:
A very incisive and powerful book by David Ray Griffin entitled:
Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action.
Of particular interest to me was the material on Jesus and the Roman Empire, as well as two key chapters that draw from Andy’s work:
Ch. 8: The Divine and the Demonic
and
Ch. 9: The American Empire, Demonic Evil, and 9/11.
IMHO Griffin hits yet another home run with this one. I’d very much enjoy an opportunity to converse with you about the issues he raises.
July 20th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
Another topic I’d love to bat around with you is the existence of “paths of awakening” which do not rely on the concept of God (particularly the Judeo-Islamic-Christian Patriarchal Fellow, sometimes described as That Gaseous Vertebrate in the Sky).