Not all that wrong there, Andy. However toleration in NOT a problem
but what is covered in your expression Greater Freedom if fully expressed
I would say Right On, Andy. Correct !
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And i will add: IF THIS CONTINUES . . THEY WILL JUST CONTINUE PLAYING THE GAME OVER THE HEADS OF THE PROTESTING CONFLICTED MASSES.
WHAT’S TO STOP THEM ?

SO I GUESS YOU CAN MAKE YOUR CHOICE AND LIVE THE CONSEQUENCES !

an honest acknowledging of what is really the divisive element among us

I, for one, believe that this site focuses considerable attention to “what is really the divisive element among us.” I imagine, however, that you, David R., are proposing some other element as the really divisive element. Am I right? You think that the really divisive element is not the right wing’s consistent attempt to find issues that divide the American people, so we cannot work together to address any of our problems. Rather that it is because some liberal elements in society want to create greater freedoms for people in their private lives, contrary to the moral condemnations of the Bible and that have traditionally been punished by American law. Is that right?

Yes, I am aware of some of the abuse and the complicity of government (s) some of which are put in power by the same and supported to the detriment and privation of the populations. Wars are fomented to exploit natural resources, the very idea of controlling food crop seeds, even privatizing water, the contri-bribed American Congress and political system.

I object to the blanket branding of ‘Corporations’ without specifics
as largely catering to the ‘liberal’ tendency of self consolation by being anti
the ‘system . . PERTIOD.
(No doubt it ‘sells’ well in certain quarters, but that’s not the path toward solutions)

So ! I certainly know there is a gigantic problem of mis-use of power from our point of view (of, by and for The People)

My continuing call is for more unity of the people and an honest acknowledging of what is really the divisive element among us

Or sure enough we will reach the point of no return. I choose to believe we maybe have not and proceed on that assumption.
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Thom Hartmann, “Equal Protection” -

“Unequal Protection should be in the hands of every thinking American. If we do not awaken soon, democracy will be replaced by a new ‘Third Reich’ of corporate tyranny. To be aware of the danger is the responsibility of each of us. No one has told us the truth better than Thom Hartmann. Read it!”–Gerry Spence, author of Give Me Liberty.

Joel Bakan, “The Corporation” -

“Corporations have successfully hijacked governments … other aspects of human nature, such as creativity, empathy, and the ability to live in harmony with the earth, are suppressed …. Bakan believes that, like Communism, this ideological order cannot last and that corporate rule must be challenged to bring balance and revive the values of democracy, social justice, equality, and compassion.”

David Korten, “When Ciorporations Rule the World” -

“…describes the global spread of corporate power as a malignant cancer exercising a market tyranny that is gradually destroying lives, democratic institutions and the ecosystem for the benefit of greedy companies and investors.”

Again, these three paragraphs were written by reviwers, not the three respective authors (or me).

Clearly, these three authors have studied and written about the takeover of political institutions by an economic institution that is unrivalled in its capacity to capture and rule us.

But don’t take my word for it, or even those of these reviewers on Amazon. Do yourself and the world a favor and read the books.

And for good measure, there’s a fourth book, “Friendly Fascism” (paperback edition, 1999, orig. publ. 1980) by Bertram Gross. And an Amazon.com review of Gross’s book:

“…the Big Government/Big Business combine that is the fueling engine of fascism is alive and well. Indeed, stronger than ever in this country.”

Or, in the alternative, kick back and enjoy the ride to fascism that the Right has paved for us. Chances are, it is a ride we are now all already on and may perhaps, thanks to the current Supreme Court, contain no reverse gear.

I just used a line in Jim O’s comment as an opening to bring up this long standing ‘castigation’ by Jim Z of the ‘Corporation’
and I simply want to see it made clear on this site (if possible) what a Corporate Entity is all about
and maybe let it be acknowledged so if there is an ongoing discussion of our- yes OUR- economic and political problems it is clear what we are talking about.

Somehow, for whatever reason, Jim, Z ( a professor of economics) has failed to come clear on this and I do not understand why.
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Of course it is obvious we are being dis-enfranchised as voting citizens.
But if we can come together as responsible citizens, responsible consumers and make sense in our political demands . . sooner than later we maybe will be effective.

I do not think it is hopeless, but if we cannot have some unity and show some respect for some of the necessary aspects of public and business life in our protests and demands ‘we’ will continue to be largely ignored.

They will simply feel justified in playing the game over the heads of a mass of protesting ignorami (whether ‘educated’ or not).

But what is your issue with Corporations AS SUCH ?

I’ve not heard Jim Z. as condemning corporations as one of the chief actors in our economy. If I’ve understood correctly, the issue is not the ECONOMIC function but rather the corporation having a dominant role as a POLITICAL actor. That’s the problem. That’s what construing the Constitution as imbuing corporations with all the political rights of individual citizens (persons) does to corrupt our democracy. That’s what this CITIZENS UNITED decision is all about: it magnifies the political power of corporations, which is already a huge problem in our system. And it’s bad law, showing “justice” to be just one more tool my which the powerful arrogate still more power to themselves.

There is NO question of the abuse of the power of MONEY and INFLUENCE from whatever quarter whether certain Corporations, Lobbies, or whatrever and wherever and the MEDIA as well. The individual voter has becone almost insignioficant in effecting much of the Nation’s policies.

All this is known and acknowledged.

But the question remain=s unanswered: WHAT IS THIS BUSINESS OF ATTACKING CORPORATIONS . . AS SUCH.

EVEN ANDY ACKNOWLEDGES THE CORPORATE FORM AS AN ENTITY IS A NECESSITY FOR BUSINESS TODAY. IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS.

We all hate (or should)) the abuse of power WHEREVER.

But what is your issue with Corporations AS SUCH ?

This seems to be unexplained . . or is this some kind of fetish of liberal self consolation ? What ?!

So! Every big city has at least four of the principles in play as I am dealing withit here already.

This is the natural course of unrestrained or unrestricted power (as Bill Clinton said of his ‘escapades’ “I did it because I could”)

I am unable to see what that has to do with the necessary legal entity know as the Corporation which no one has shown how we can do without.

So what is the point of slamming corporations as such when thay are a necessary form.

The problem for us peons is the misuse -In Our View- of the power and opportunities available to those in power in government and business (and often Media as well)

So What Is The Available Alternative ?

Just sad lamentations of ‘the way of the world ?

What ? ? ?