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	<title>Comments on: A Day in the Life of Joe Conservative:  One Striking Way of Making that Point that Government&#8217;s Role is Necessary</title>
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		<title>By: ToddR</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386593</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386593</guid>
		<description>Oh, I forgot to mention that the blog I quoted was not criticizing the Vanderbilt Theology project, but the Conservapedia project mentioned at http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I forgot to mention that the blog I quoted was not criticizing the Vanderbilt Theology project, but the Conservapedia project mentioned at <a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project" rel="nofollow">http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project</a></p>
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		<title>By: ToddR</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386591</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386591</guid>
		<description>Re &quot;changing the Bible&quot; see: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/10/the_conservative_rewrite_of_th.php

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The core of the article there:

&quot;A few examples, to get the unreality of this across:

One of their goals is &quot;identify pro-liberal terms used in existing bible translations, such as ``government&#039;&#039;, and suggest more accurate substitutes&quot;. So any verse in the bible that mentions &quot;government&quot; is, automatically, incorrect, because the word &quot;government&quot; is pro-liberal. There&#039;s no discussion of whether &quot;government&quot; is an accurate translation of the original greek or hebrew; it must be wrong, because according to their supposedly &quot;conservative&quot; philosophy, government is always bad, and so any passage in the the text which says anything that might be remotely positive about government is, necessarily, wrong.

One example they give of a &quot;liberal falsehood&quot; is a verse from the new testament: ``Jesus said, &quot;Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.&quot;&#039;&#039;. That, they say, must be removed from the bible. Because, you see, that quote only appears in one book of the new testament, and it&#039;s just obviously wrong. Why is it obviously wrong? If you want to contribute to the Conservative Bible Project, you&#039;re not allowed to ask that question. It just is wrong, because they don&#039;t like it.

In their early efforts at translation, they&#039;re trying to get rid of the word &quot;Pharisees&quot;. &quot;Pharisees&quot; is a very specific term; it means a specific group of people. It&#039;s not a generic term for &quot;bad people&quot;, or &quot;liberal people&quot;, or anything like that. They were a group that was distinguished by, among other things, believing in (gasp!) the literal interpretation of the book of Exodus. They were also the grouping that included most of the high priests of the second temple. The conservapedia folks have been suggesting replacing &quot;Pharisee&quot; with &quot;self-selected elite&quot;, &quot;intellectual&quot;, or (cutting to the chase) &quot;liberals&quot;. As a &quot;translation&quot;, that&#039;s absolute garbage. It completely ignores the meaning of the original text, in order to create the appearance that their political beliefs have some sort of divine support, even though the original text can&#039;t support that interpretation.&quot;

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ToddR comment:  I think that the Sadducees, not Pharisees, were the &quot;Book of Exodus literalists&quot; during the Second Temple period, so the writer had that wrong.  But his point that &quot;Pharisees&quot; has a specific meaning not well-captured by modern terms such as &quot;liberals&quot; stands.

More ironic for the project, Pharisees were distinguished by their strict observance of religious ceremonies and practices, adherence to oral laws and traditions, and belief in an afterlife and the coming of a Messiah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re &#8220;changing the Bible&#8221; see: <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/10/the_conservative_rewrite_of_th.php" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/10/the_conservative_rewrite_of_th.php</a></p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>The core of the article there:</p>
<p>&#8220;A few examples, to get the unreality of this across:</p>
<p>One of their goals is &#8220;identify pro-liberal terms used in existing bible translations, such as &#8220;government&#8221;, and suggest more accurate substitutes&#8221;. So any verse in the bible that mentions &#8220;government&#8221; is, automatically, incorrect, because the word &#8220;government&#8221; is pro-liberal. There&#8217;s no discussion of whether &#8220;government&#8221; is an accurate translation of the original greek or hebrew; it must be wrong, because according to their supposedly &#8220;conservative&#8221; philosophy, government is always bad, and so any passage in the the text which says anything that might be remotely positive about government is, necessarily, wrong.</p>
<p>One example they give of a &#8220;liberal falsehood&#8221; is a verse from the new testament: &#8220;Jesus said, &#8220;Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.&#8221;&#8221;. That, they say, must be removed from the bible. Because, you see, that quote only appears in one book of the new testament, and it&#8217;s just obviously wrong. Why is it obviously wrong? If you want to contribute to the Conservative Bible Project, you&#8217;re not allowed to ask that question. It just is wrong, because they don&#8217;t like it.</p>
<p>In their early efforts at translation, they&#8217;re trying to get rid of the word &#8220;Pharisees&#8221;. &#8220;Pharisees&#8221; is a very specific term; it means a specific group of people. It&#8217;s not a generic term for &#8220;bad people&#8221;, or &#8220;liberal people&#8221;, or anything like that. They were a group that was distinguished by, among other things, believing in (gasp!) the literal interpretation of the book of Exodus. They were also the grouping that included most of the high priests of the second temple. The conservapedia folks have been suggesting replacing &#8220;Pharisee&#8221; with &#8220;self-selected elite&#8221;, &#8220;intellectual&#8221;, or (cutting to the chase) &#8220;liberals&#8221;. As a &#8220;translation&#8221;, that&#8217;s absolute garbage. It completely ignores the meaning of the original text, in order to create the appearance that their political beliefs have some sort of divine support, even though the original text can&#8217;t support that interpretation.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>ToddR comment:  I think that the Sadducees, not Pharisees, were the &#8220;Book of Exodus literalists&#8221; during the Second Temple period, so the writer had that wrong.  But his point that &#8220;Pharisees&#8221; has a specific meaning not well-captured by modern terms such as &#8220;liberals&#8221; stands.</p>
<p>More ironic for the project, Pharisees were distinguished by their strict observance of religious ceremonies and practices, adherence to oral laws and traditions, and belief in an afterlife and the coming of a Messiah.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386380</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386380</guid>
		<description>For the sake of economic unity, you might want to consider holding back on badmouthing people of differing religious views from your own, David R.  In furtherance of that, though I sure you will have see it by now anyway, I respectfully commend your attention to the very timely sermon &quot;Right and Left Together
What Religious Liberals and Conservatives Have in Common&quot; that Andy just posted at http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5573&amp;cpage=1#comment-386375 and also the previous article by the same author.  I posted the title and link to that previous article in the other thread, but here is the link again for your convenience.
http://uuworld.org/ideas/articles/1716.shtml 

Again, David R, this is in furtherance of our mutual hope for economic unity.

Larry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the sake of economic unity, you might want to consider holding back on badmouthing people of differing religious views from your own, David R.  In furtherance of that, though I sure you will have see it by now anyway, I respectfully commend your attention to the very timely sermon &#8220;Right and Left Together<br />
What Religious Liberals and Conservatives Have in Common&#8221; that Andy just posted at <a href="http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5573&amp;cpage=1#comment-386375" rel="nofollow">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5573&amp;cpage=1#comment-386375</a> and also the previous article by the same author.  I posted the title and link to that previous article in the other thread, but here is the link again for your convenience.<br />
<a href="http://uuworld.org/ideas/articles/1716.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://uuworld.org/ideas/articles/1716.shtml</a> </p>
<p>Again, David R, this is in furtherance of our mutual hope for economic unity.</p>
<p>Larry</p>
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		<title>By: David R</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386215</link>
		<dc:creator>David R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386215</guid>
		<description>So you see, Larry, partly why I say the new theme for unity (if there is to be a majority)  will be economic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you see, Larry, partly why I say the new theme for unity (if there is to be a majority)  will be economic.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386209</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386209</guid>
		<description>David R, I am sorry to say I don&#039;t believe it is possible to have rational discussion between the sex-positive people and the sex-negative people, what with each group, really, believing that the existence of the other group is harmful to society, i.e. evil, to some significant degree regardless of whatever positive features the individual members of the other group have in them that might or might not outweigh this major bad feature.  One might advocate for the two groups learning just to ignore each other, but that of course makes cooperation difficult in other areas.  I have no good solution to offer other than to move to a part of the country where there are people of like mind.  In fact I have the understanding from before the economic crash that many people actually were moving with the goal of living among people of like mind.  NSB is a special community where some perhaps somewhat exceptional people care to try to communicate despite the divide.  But we&#039;re still probably going nowhere with sexual morality except of course as the discussion may cross over into other more general moral issues such as being honest and perhaps even refraining from stealing from other people.

Larry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David R, I am sorry to say I don&#8217;t believe it is possible to have rational discussion between the sex-positive people and the sex-negative people, what with each group, really, believing that the existence of the other group is harmful to society, i.e. evil, to some significant degree regardless of whatever positive features the individual members of the other group have in them that might or might not outweigh this major bad feature.  One might advocate for the two groups learning just to ignore each other, but that of course makes cooperation difficult in other areas.  I have no good solution to offer other than to move to a part of the country where there are people of like mind.  In fact I have the understanding from before the economic crash that many people actually were moving with the goal of living among people of like mind.  NSB is a special community where some perhaps somewhat exceptional people care to try to communicate despite the divide.  But we&#8217;re still probably going nowhere with sexual morality except of course as the discussion may cross over into other more general moral issues such as being honest and perhaps even refraining from stealing from other people.</p>
<p>Larry</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Ferrell</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386208</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Ferrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386208</guid>
		<description>&quot;The faster I go, the behinder I get.&quot;  This is precisely how most American workers live.  It&#039;s no wonder the MSM controls the minds of such drones, who think their freedom is a personal thing divined by some power on high.  T&#039;ings be goin&#039; faster all de time, man.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The faster I go, the behinder I get.&#8221;  This is precisely how most American workers live.  It&#8217;s no wonder the MSM controls the minds of such drones, who think their freedom is a personal thing divined by some power on high.  T&#8217;ings be goin&#8217; faster all de time, man.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: David R</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386189</link>
		<dc:creator>David R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386189</guid>
		<description>Ho ! ho ! The &#039;smarter&#039; they get the &#039;behinder&#039; they go. (Oh !! oh !; careful ! do not misread that) Couold be a remark of unintended consequences)

Speaking of changes, at Vanderbilt some years back there was a conclave in the Theology department whose said purpose was changing the Bible.
A talk host was carrying on like it was big stuff so I called in. Say Buddy, do me a fovor; if you bring this up again, say They are Changing THEIR Bible.
And he did ! And then made a talk himself of the &#039;timelessness&#039; in the substance and meaning of the Bible as we have it. Re Vanderbilt Divinity,
What do you think of an unbelieving Jewish lady as as New Testament lecturer ?
There is progress indeed. It&#039;s been a couple of years when there was a public lecture of the female vagina (excuse me ladies) and it was not the Medical School.

And they knew not &#039;&#039;til the enemy came and took them (or their money) all away !

I visited the zoo in Memphis one time and the monkeys&#039; demonstrated interest in sex and their activities and antics somehow comes to mind during discussions such as this, Larry. If evolution is possibly true for some folks 
and their grandparents really ascended, do you suppose this could be a reverse trend. Wow ! Science . . at the zoo . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ho ! ho ! The &#8216;smarter&#8217; they get the &#8216;behinder&#8217; they go. (Oh !! oh !; careful ! do not misread that) Couold be a remark of unintended consequences)</p>
<p>Speaking of changes, at Vanderbilt some years back there was a conclave in the Theology department whose said purpose was changing the Bible.<br />
A talk host was carrying on like it was big stuff so I called in. Say Buddy, do me a fovor; if you bring this up again, say They are Changing THEIR Bible.<br />
And he did ! And then made a talk himself of the &#8216;timelessness&#8217; in the substance and meaning of the Bible as we have it. Re Vanderbilt Divinity,<br />
What do you think of an unbelieving Jewish lady as as New Testament lecturer ?<br />
There is progress indeed. It&#8217;s been a couple of years when there was a public lecture of the female vagina (excuse me ladies) and it was not the Medical School.</p>
<p>And they knew not &#8221;til the enemy came and took them (or their money) all away !</p>
<p>I visited the zoo in Memphis one time and the monkeys&#8217; demonstrated interest in sex and their activities and antics somehow comes to mind during discussions such as this, Larry. If evolution is possibly true for some folks<br />
and their grandparents really ascended, do you suppose this could be a reverse trend. Wow ! Science . . at the zoo . . .</p>
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		<title>By: David R</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386172</link>
		<dc:creator>David R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386172</guid>
		<description>Aarpn K,

Hate to be nit-picking but maybe you might check out the beginings of the U S Postal service. If you think old Ben was a liberal  I&#039;d think that very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aarpn K,</p>
<p>Hate to be nit-picking but maybe you might check out the beginings of the U S Postal service. If you think old Ben was a liberal  I&#8217;d think that very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386153</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386153</guid>
		<description>Hey, David R, :-)

You said,
&lt;blockquote&gt;It is interesting that since the Democrat[ic] Party lost the Southern Whites
and embraced the very fringes of society and has been trying to mainstream and ‘normalize’ almost all the ‘un-values’ conceivable&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I was almost tempted to say, &quot;So what&#039;s your point?  lol.&quot;  But the truth is simply that the movement of sex-positive values into the mainstream of this country turned off many good people that the Democratic Party needs to help support other common values in addition to sex-positive values.

This is an absolutely true story: I recently had occasion, for the first time in 44 years now, to visit one of my main &lt;i&gt;almae matres&lt;/i&gt;, Swarthmore College in Swarthmore, Pennsylvania.  I have mentioned Swarthmore before. For what it&#039;s worth to this story, Swarthmore College has been consistently rated among the top educational institutions in the county by U.S. News &amp; World Report right up to 2010.  Anyway, my wife and I went by the Pennsylvania Turnpike exit for Swarthmore on the way back from an engagement party for a favorite niece of mine.  We decided to get off the highway and take a look.

To focus on just one little part of what was a very nice experience, especially for me, on one of the student bulletin boards in the main building was a notice for a seminar on sex toys!  Wow!  My how times have changed!  The notice didn&#039;t even say anything about being for one gender or the other!  I was pleased as well as being quite surprised, but I think my appearance at 65 years of age might risk cramping the style of the seminar leader(s) and younger attenders. :-7

Larry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, David R, <img src='http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You said,</p>
<blockquote><p>It is interesting that since the Democrat[ic] Party lost the Southern Whites<br />
and embraced the very fringes of society and has been trying to mainstream and ‘normalize’ almost all the ‘un-values’ conceivable</p></blockquote>
<p>I was almost tempted to say, &#8220;So what&#8217;s your point?  lol.&#8221;  But the truth is simply that the movement of sex-positive values into the mainstream of this country turned off many good people that the Democratic Party needs to help support other common values in addition to sex-positive values.</p>
<p>This is an absolutely true story: I recently had occasion, for the first time in 44 years now, to visit one of my main <i>almae matres</i>, Swarthmore College in Swarthmore, Pennsylvania.  I have mentioned Swarthmore before. For what it&#8217;s worth to this story, Swarthmore College has been consistently rated among the top educational institutions in the county by U.S. News &amp; World Report right up to 2010.  Anyway, my wife and I went by the Pennsylvania Turnpike exit for Swarthmore on the way back from an engagement party for a favorite niece of mine.  We decided to get off the highway and take a look.</p>
<p>To focus on just one little part of what was a very nice experience, especially for me, on one of the student bulletin boards in the main building was a notice for a seminar on sex toys!  Wow!  My how times have changed!  The notice didn&#8217;t even say anything about being for one gender or the other!  I was pleased as well as being quite surprised, but I think my appearance at 65 years of age might risk cramping the style of the seminar leader(s) and younger attenders. :-7</p>
<p>Larry</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron K.</title>
		<link>http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611&#038;cpage=1#comment-386145</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=5611#comment-386145</guid>
		<description>Joe turns on his television prepared to enjoy one of the 100 channels he receives.  He almost makes it through all 92 infomercial channels to one of the seven talk show channels he frequents but is enticed to order a grocery bag holder for $9.99.  He pulls out his credit card with a $25,000 limit only to learn that he can&#039;t use it to order the bag holder because his utility payment arrived two days late last month. He is sure that the delivery service is at fault, but when he calls the customer help line he is connected to a facility in India and is put on indefinite hold.  &quot;If this keeps up,&quot; he muses, &quot;I might just go postal.  Wait a minute, postal . . . post office!  Oh yes, I remember the post office, just another liberal conspiracy we are better off without.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe turns on his television prepared to enjoy one of the 100 channels he receives.  He almost makes it through all 92 infomercial channels to one of the seven talk show channels he frequents but is enticed to order a grocery bag holder for $9.99.  He pulls out his credit card with a $25,000 limit only to learn that he can&#8217;t use it to order the bag holder because his utility payment arrived two days late last month. He is sure that the delivery service is at fault, but when he calls the customer help line he is connected to a facility in India and is put on indefinite hold.  &#8220;If this keeps up,&#8221; he muses, &#8220;I might just go postal.  Wait a minute, postal . . . post office!  Oh yes, I remember the post office, just another liberal conspiracy we are better off without.&#8221;</p>
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